Saturday, September 8, 2007

Joel Osteen, 2 Timothy, and Matthew

While searching for information about the Joel Osteen board game, I ran across this video from A Little Leaven - basically Joel Osteen sermon excerpts, with the addition of subtitles from the "A Little Leaven" folks.

Perhaps this subtitle suggests how "A Little Leaven" views Osteen's preaching.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

Others [1] [2] [3] have linked Osteen with that particular verse.

On the other hand, I found this comment in an anti-Osteen post:

on 09 Sep 2006 at 4:22 pm shepherda
While I think it’s important that we examine teachings of brothers who state they are of the faith, we walk a fine line. We can’t forget Mk. 9:38-41 here..and must remember that thousands might be coming to Jesus sincerely through the vehicle of Joel Osteen (by God’s design).

Humbly submitted.

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That man will not look towards men but towards Jesus! said...

I dont think I have seen Joel Osteen casting out any demons in Jesus name lately. And you are misusing that scripture. And it could not be applied to Joel Osteen.

I think if you asked Joel Osteen about demons he would probably tell you that he doesnt believe demons actually exist.

Also I personally question whether those "thousands" you mentioned actually were coming to Christ through Osteen, and are actually in Christ. A Blind man cannot lead another bland man to water.

The passage you cited implies that the "others" were actually true believers in Christ. The proof of this is Jesus words. For Jesus is God and he is omniscient.

Ontario Emperor said...

I found some additional comments on judging Osteen, which I will share in the comments.

Here's one, from Mickeygirl:

Rom 4:14
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Guys, I am out of here. I think if I saw this thread some time ago I would have been out of here long ago!

Sorry, I have a problem with all this servant of God bashing going on here!

Of course, there's the question of whether Osteen is God's servant, or the servant of someone else.

Ontario Emperor said...

From that same thread, eric says the following (after referring to verses in John 7 and Luke 12):

the greek word for judge in John 7 is Krinos, and it refers to condemnatory, prejudiced and hypocritical judgment. We cannot judge the inmost parts of the body and soul, but we are to judge people's actions, doctrine and lifestyle and measure it against the standards of the Word of God and not by our own standards.

In this case, we are talking about the teachings and doctrines of Joel Osteen and although I don't know that much about him, I do know that he's very charismatic and is in the same league as Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn, always preaching on money and worldly gain. He preaches the prosperity gospel and I have never seen him talk of the One True Gospel, that God entered into His creation, from out of eternity into the boundaries of the time dimension, clothed Himself with flesh, fulfilled over 324 messianic prophecies in His first coming alone, died on the cross as the sinbearer, and 3 days later, rose again.

I have never once heard Joel talk of that.

Ontario Emperor said...

One more from that thread, this one from Jennifer, one that effectively takes us back to 2 Timothy 4:

It is dangerous to "judge", but it IS important to warn people about preachers who do not teach about salvation only through Jesus Christ. Joel Osteen among many others, have countless followers who believe everything these men tell them. They get so caught up in the hope that these men preach, that they forget that the Bible says that Jesus is our only hope, our only salvation. We can do NOTHING to save ourselves. The Bible also tells us that these kinds of teachings will become more wide-spread as the time for Christ's return draws near. I understand what Mickeygirl means about our inability to judge another person's heart. But I also understand that we have to reach out to those who may be falling prey to the wolves in sheep's clothing that the Bible warns us about. Just throwing in my 2 cents.